Underground never dies!

Interview questions for the new UNDERGROUND NEVER DIES! Book
By Andres Padilla, editor of Grinder Magazine, Chile.
Grinder Mag exists since 1993 and has been digging into the underground scene until now!
Please, forward answers to [e-mail]

Stefan Franke (Publicist at Century Media Records Europe, contributor to Necromaniac Zine, www.voicesfromthedarkside.de, Ancient Spirit Terror Zine (RIP) co-editor)

I have been trying to reach out to as many people as I can in order to get this book that I´m working on (UNDERGROUND NEVER DIES!). Well on its way.  I am  asking the key-characters of this movement, “What is this “underground” concept all about? What does it really mean to you.” After having read some of the responses that I have already received, I am truly impressed that a simple question can have such varied responses and impacts.  Far beyond how this word really started, the concept of Underground has been, and will continue to be an immortal entity which refuses to die. Can you explain what really the word “Underground” means to you? Please, be detailed if you can.
Underground to me embodies mainly the following: Freedom, autonomy, DIY-ethic, direct interaction between fans/bands/labels/bookers/etc.. Whether it means that a band can do what it wants musically and try out different things on a small scale and present it to a dedicated audience that immediately gives a certain feedback or labels that create a profile for themselves by specializing in certain subgenres or niches of the underground scene, etc. I think the underground is where any music scene starts and always is a source of inspiration and alternatives to established bands, who usually have to cope with much more commercial pressure or concessions to a mass audience. It’s the place where everything starts as even Metallica once were an “underground” band. It’s the fundament of any scene and will always be there and nowadays the internet and social networks make it easier to keep it healthy and flourishing.
I consider metal fanzines like the base of underground music. Many of them has been the source of information for all music followers (musicians, journalists, fans or label related business men, to name a few). Although Internet existence, this source of information has never abandoned the face of the music scene. So, at the beginning of your music journey, how important were the fanzines to you? Do you still keep an eye on them?
Well, I have to admit that my interest in fanzines got a big smaller over the past years since after I finished doing Ancient Spirit Terror with my fellow editor Vasili due to lack of time and starting a family, I wasn’t as regularly in touch with people doing zines back when the zine was still active and we were trading stuff more often. However, I still write for Necromaniac Zine which is a damn great mag for death metal maniacs and occasionally buy mags at festivals or shows. But to be honest, today I mainly care about keeping on writing than reading. When I started with music the ordinary metal mags were very important as they presented me an overview of a fascinating scene and music I liked and when I met Vasili he introduced me to a lot of underground stuff and I felt I could discover even more interesting music by digging deeper into the world of fanzines and underground bands. They were definitely my “eye-opener” to underground music and expanded my horizon immensely. Nowadays, I’m happy with forums like the Nuclear War Now one and a few blogs like cvltnation.com since I’d rather have a few regular sites with good writing and information that I care about than visiting ten thousand different ones. Due to my job I always read most German and British music mags and probably that decreased my interest in fanzines a bit since I don’t find the free time to read these also, but when I look for new music especially extreme stuff, a look in more underground-related sources is what I do.
Can you tell us your experience behind this unique job?
Well, I always like to make fun of it as being a secretary for musicians. As a promoter or publicist you are the connection between bands, the various Century Media offices and the media. I have to make sure media is interested in reporting about our bands and have to arrange interviews with many of our musicians and set up reviews, plan special promotion events etc. It’s basically public relation work and it is simply fantastic to be able to work with metal and a lot of bands I also personally like (Triptykon, Asphyx, Sonne Adam, Grave, Marduk, Necrowretch, Massacre, Watain, …). It’s generally a really normal job with its ups and downs, its arghhs and ughhs, and has nothing glamorous to it, but it’s incredible to work with one of the things I love most in life apart from my family and that’s metal. I know that sounds a bit exaggerated but it’s the truth. Any car freak who pimps the most nice cars in the world will know the feeling.


Related to this, what kind of golden memories do you hold deep of your mind?

I’m a bit of a Celtic Frost/Triptykon maniac, so meeting Tom and Martin for the first time and hearing “Monotheist” together with them while I was still nothing but a trainee was something I will always remember. Also, visiting the HR Giger museum with Tom and some journalists was really unforgettable. I don’t wanna boast about this, not at all, but in such moments that teenager that used to listen to a “Satanic Rites” bootleg and was totally awestruck by the immense atmosphere and dark anger of it simply comes back and cherishes a moment with his own “idols” so to speak. I think every decent metal head refuses to grow up to some extent and while I will always be professional in my job and hide my excitement from the people I work with, I can’t stop it from being there.
Is there any memorable fanzine that changed your way of thinking about music, or a particular one that you consider an important influence on you and also fundamental in the whole 80’s scene? Which one(s), and why?

While being 34 already, I started rather late with extreme metal (early 90’s maybe, when I was 13/14) and met Vasili around 2000, so I only know the “newer” fanzines though I also bought some mid-90s copies of Voices From The Dark Side. My holy grail of fanzines is the incredible Davthvs from Sweden, which was done by Timo Ketola (artworks for Dead Congregation, Watain and many others) – that mag was like a piece of art. Extremely morbid, extremely dedicated and well written and soaked in blood. I love that one and think it’s the best zine ever done. I really was inspired to work on my writing qualities and improve the visuals in Ancient Spirit Terror as good as possible. While my writing got better and better, my visual work did not, so maybe one reason to also stop doing Ancient Spirit Terror was realizing I will never do such a great zine as that one. It was great doing it and I’m glad I’m still active writing.


In the 80s, Death Metal music began as something that no one dreamed would grow to have any validity whatsoever; it ended up being a groundbreaking thing. How do you see DM now? Do you believe that this kind of music can still grow and continue to be a menace to the mainstream?

Death metal is definitely an established genre nowadays and apart from bands who even manage to achieve mainstream success will forever retain its underground roots. Even a super popular band like Amon Amarth was once a small underground band and I think these guys will always appreciate where they come from even if they play huge capacity shows nowadays and can probably even live from the music they make. Just take for example Cannibal Corpse: They still do really brutal stuff and now celebrate their 25^th anniversary. I guess that would have been unthinkable in the 80’s or early 90’s but it speaks for the impact and power of this genre. It’s simply too great music to just vanish after a certain hype. The early death metal bands have inspired others to also play that style and this will probably go on forever. Over here in Germany old school death metal is actually very hip at the moment with bands like Asphyx making it into the charts, tons of great newcomers like Venenum, Sonne Adam, Chapel Of Disease, Skeletal Remains, Sulphur Aeon, Krypts getting great feedback from press and fans and I think that is a good thing since it helps the genre to survive and get the right amount of appreciation. Just like traditional heavy metal before, death metal is not just some kids making noise anymore, but an established and respected genre that is inseparably connected to music history. Of course, the genre’s “shock value” definitely has worn down meanwhile and no one really freaks out about a brutal cover artwork or disgusting lyrics, but I think that’s not a problem, that’s just normal for a genre’s evolution. As death is forever, so is death metal!
I consider that between the mid-80’s and early 90’s, we experienced the birth of the best metal albums ever made (speed, thrash, death, black). To me, they all have a unique and authentic feeling of honesty. A simple but raw, morbid and impious sound which has been very difficult to replicate in the modern days. Tell me your vision/opinion about it.
The 80’s/90’s bands surely had one major advantage: They were there first! Thus, bands like Slayer, Metallica, Destruction, Kreator, Sodom could forge the thrash sound, bands like Morbid Angel, Death, Entombed, Autopsy, Cannibal Corpse could define the death metal sound, Mayhem, Bathory, Darkthrone, Sarcofago the black metal sound, etc.. Taking into consideration that back then no one hardly had a clue how this extreme music should sound, a lot of productions were so special due to engineers not really having a clue how to make it sound proper and the songs were so incredible since these bands were in their youth, full of energy and inspiration and ultimately that resulted in tons of killer records. Of course nowadays a lot of albums sound more transparent and overblown with effects, but even if I personally do not like that so much, there are still so many bands around going for a raw, organic and filthy approach that every fan can find a band for his personal preferences pretty easily. I really don’t like this “everything was better in the past”-attitude and bands that just copy another band from the past because I don’t wanna waste my time only concentrating on “old” music but like to discover new bands all the time. Just take the Sonne Adam album “Transformation” or Necros Christos “Doom Of The Occult”, these records sound f**king awesome, warm and heavy and might be future classics, too! For a more technical sound a cleaner production might be better to make all the elements shine through nicely and that’s totally fine, in the end today every kind of production is possible and that is different from the early days. However, the increasing amount of possibilities in terms of production also increase the risk of people picking the “wrong” sound for them, but you know what – that’s their problem. I will always find music I love since the underground scene will always provide me with options.
In the early days of this music scene, we all experienced the unique feeling of discovering new bands through the fanzines, by tape trading or going to gigs. Underground music in the 80’s was all about that. Since the appearance of the Internet everything in communications has changed. Young kids started to use a keyboard instead of a pen. They shaped another kind of underground philosophy, way more plastic, digital and artificial. Do you think what since the Internet era everything related to the Underground-way of life changed forever? It is not even black and white anymore.
Totally, I think a certain magic got lost due to the technical evolution and it is especially sad that so many zines died out, but you can either go with the flow to some extent and appreciate the advantages of modern communication and networking or live in a cave. I like the fact that I can find a chance to listen to a track from a Chilean death metal band like Nar Mattaru asap on the net while back in the day you easily accumulated tons of shit demos due to trading since you could not check them out first, haha. When a friend of mine had internet for the first time – I was back at school then – I spend hours and hours at his place drinking beer and listening to records while finding out more about death metal and other underground music and there was no MP3 but a lot of shit to read and I considered that a great time. So, without the internet I would not know as many bands as I know today and back then I did mainly read the regular metal mags, so it was a great addition to what I could read there. I don’t mind if people say, “fuck the internet, I’ll be sending tapes and letters around and piss on modern technology”, but as much as I appreciate this stubborn way of thinking and dedication, it’s not working at all for me. Of course, getting a hand written letter from Rick Cortez of Sadistic Intent plus some shirt is truly special and incomparable to just getting an email. What I don’t like today is the superficiality and focus on looks rather on music: I really hate the fact that nowadays something like this Blasphemy-style kinda black metal/war metal out of a sudden can become super trendy with youngsters who probably not even have one of the LPs at home but run around in clothing that looks like bought from “the underground death/black maniac’s H&M” if you get my point. This works for many music scenes, a lot has become very visual and dull while the appreciation for and knowledge about the music is simply not there. I actually read books about metal and other genres to know stuff about the music I’m listening to. Today, it often seems like “I heard this sick shit up on bandcamp, I need a patch immediately” kinda behavior and that’s a bit sad since if you do not really care about the music you listen to and properly delve into its origins and build a certain knowledge of it, you can not be a real fan but only use it as a fashion tag. Just look at these deathcore kids, they get their arms and throats tattooed before even thinking about buying a CD. That’s just nuts! However, this is not a big problem in the death metal scene where most people I know are honest and authentic people. Overall, the internet is not the enemy, just more practical than magical and in the end it is the people you deal with that make the difference. As long as I know enough good people with whom I can talk about music for hours, I really don’t care where I get my information from.


I feel very lucky to have been able to experience the sensation of contributing to the development of a very formidable, intricate and massive world such as the metal scene. All the ones who lived and tasted the early days of this music scene know it. But at the same time, I feel sorry for the new generations which will never appreciate the real value of things such as demo tapes, a Xeroxed fanzine or a handwritten letter from the other corner of the world. Do you agree? Tell me your opinion.
Looking back I share this view, definitely. Though I was never much of a tape trader or witnessed the metal scene during the 80’s, I know the special feeling of a demo cassette, a Xeroxed self-made zine and handwritten letters from bands I love and I think my child will hear about the cassette like in an mystic old saga from a forgotten past. I’ll be the weird wizard telling her about ancient tools she has never seen, haha. It’s really strange to feel that even with 34 I have used and known things that are hardly existent anymore and of course that fills me with a certain vibe of melancholy and well, feeling old! Even if I started very late with underground stuff I’m really glad to have been there and know how it was back in the day, when there was still 5 ¼ inch floppy discs or black/white computer screens, no mobile phones, no internet, when I still recorded songs on tape from the radio, played music with the big tape recorder of my father (you know a reel to reel machine), when I got letters from bands and friends, spent days at the local record stores to listen to new records and meeting new metalheads at shows not in forums

If you have to name the best 10 metal albums and demos of the early days. Which they could be?
I have just listed some of my all-time faves below since cutting down such a list to ten releases is super hard and thus I’ll go with some classics, haha, that’s easier:

Slayer – Hell Awaits

Morbid Angel – Blessed Are The Sick

Autopsy – Mental Funeral

Death – Leprosy

Suffocation – Pierced From Within

Deicide – Deicide

Immolation – Close To A World Below

Paradise Lost – Icon

Celtic Frost – To Mega Therion

Dark Angel – Darkness Descends

Do you think this type of music (extreme metal) should be kept away from the masses and mainstream? Why?
No, it should not be kept away from the mainstream since I think extreme metal is, honestly, the greatest music in the world and you should hear it, love it, hail it. I have started with listening to the big bands first and discovered the underground acts then, so it’s important to have big bands or genre leaders to gain people’s attention for a certain sound. Once you dig deeper you’ll be lost anyway as the more you dig into a genre, the better it gets and the greater pearls you’ll discover. Of course, seeing a band like Incantation in the top 100 will never happen and should not, but if some bands have big success why not? As long as it is good, I don’t care. The underground scene with its love for its even more extreme extreme metal will always thrive upon the fact that it can allow itself more freedom. In my teenager days I was thinking way more narrow-minded about such matters but nowadays I’m wise enough to be tolerant in my intolerance, haha, good music - no matter if it is metal or not - can be found everywhere, so open your eyes and ears and listen to all the great stuff from all ages and eras, from all scenes and genres and you will lead a very happy life. Every era be it the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 00’s had its highs and also lows, some era more than another according to my taste, but that’s how it has always been and always will be, so why brag about what’s shit today when you can enjoy what is killer today? A music scene is healthy when mainstream AND underground exist and spawn great music - that’s the case today, so yeah!